2017-08 Abominatio Desolationis Magazine
Light is in extension. Welcome to these pages and thank you for blessing them with your presences.
Antoine Hadjioannou : Thank you for your interest in Aluk Todolo. Khabs Am Phekt.
Lately there has been quite a lot of live activity for Aluk Todolo, first in the Americas with Insect Ark. What was the experience like? Was there some kind of special atmosphere?
AH: We were glad to come back to the US after a long time and several aborted attempts. Thanks to Stefan Raduta and his beautiful Stardust Festival, we played twice in NYC and then were able to do a week of shows on the west coast. Sharing the bill with Insect Ark was indeed special, I think it was a very nice combination.
Aluk Todolo then returned to Europe to walk upon its soil. I guess that for an artist each live performance is special in its own way, but were there episodes worthy of note?
AH: Oh yes, the shows in Brussels, Paris and especially Toulouse were very good. Sometimes the stars align and allow the band and the audience to connect at some special level. This is precious.
The first offering was a self-titled 7”, bearing two compositions of the same name. What was the point of this release, merely showing what Aluk Todolo could achieve or was it already an output with its own meaning? Were there previous recordings?
AH: There is a meaning. It is not true to say that the two compositions have the same name, they are represented by two distinct symbols, respectively Marbas and Archangel Michael. There were some previous recordings as shown on Archives volume 1, but these two tracks were the first obsessional formulas we focused on. The band was two years old when this debut release came out, and everything was very instinctive, yet it was all there. We were already in quest for entheogenic music.
The cover of the first 7” shows a ha nd with Aluk Todolo's symbol on the wrist. Is this the symbol to which the compositions address?
AH: The Enochian A was already there indeed. Is it the symbol to which the compositions address, or is it the symbol which invokes the compositions? It is a good question to ask, but there is no clear answer, as it is both.
The first full length came out a year later, bearing the name of “Descension”. What do you think of it, ten years later? Does it still bear the same power intially unleashed? The title implies a descent, a fall perhaps, what is the purpose of this meditation?
AH: These were times of great experimentations. It took almost one year to mix Descension, it was a work of revelation which took the form of a descension, from the audible to the subliminal. Of course there are different possible interpretations to this title, and as usual some keys are present in the artwork. But the meaning is very obvious if one envisions the music properly as a meditation: it is an inner voyage, during which consciousness descends from upper, lucid states, to deeper, subcounscious ones. "The mysterious path goes inward. It is in us, and not anywhere else, where the eternity of the worlds, the past and the future are found".N. As all our albums it is both a step and an achievement, and I see no reason why a ten years period of time would change anything about it.
”Descension” is your only album which did not get a re-release through Ajna/Norma Evangelium Diaboli, is such a thing in the works or is it a closed chapter?
AH: No it is not a closed chapter, the album will be re-released soon, through Riot Season, the label who orginally issued it on vinyl.
”Finsternis” was the second opus. “Finsternis” is the German word for eclipse, the description on the label's website described how this album was to be perceived as a cycle. What are the contacts which name the songs? Totality is reached at the central song, I suspect there is a particular meaning of this. Care to elaborate?
AH: There is indeed a particular meaning to the name of the tracks, and it is very down to earth (that's the case to say). Four contacts around one totality are the different phases of an eclipse in astronomy. During the first contact the limb of the Moon appears in front of the Sun, then during the second contact the last rays of sunlight pass through craters on the disc of the Moon. Totality is then reached: the sky becomes black, stars and planets become visible. The third contact sees the umbra moving along the line of totality. The Moon once again reveals the disc of the Sun, before the fourth contact during which the Moon's disc leaves the disc of the Sun. Of course there is more than that, as in our work, the eclipse phenomena is envisioned from a magick point of view. There is a quote printed in the Ajna/Noevdia cd edition of Finsternis that can enlighten you about this subject.
In-between the tenth and the eleventh year were released a few recordings, some of them were split recordings. How did you get involved in “On the Power of the Sphynx” 4-way LP? What do you think of the contribution of the other artists?
AH: "On the Powers of the Sphynx" was Tyler's (the Ajna Offensive) idea. He selected some bands he liked and assigned them the task of illustrating musically one power each. I guess the fact we're an instrumental band made him think of us for "To Keep Silent" in the first place, but we wouldn't have accepted to work on this project if it didn't make sense to us, and crafting this piece was very challenging and interesting, and somehow showed us the way for the elemental concepts of Occult Rock. I like the fact that this is not only a compilation record around a theme, but something special, with a magic purpose.
“Ordre” was a 10” released through The Ajna Offensive. A brilliant piece of twenty minutes of music. On the cover there is a hand which stands there as if it were to stop something, to establish order in some sense. Am I day-dreaming too much? Also, music sounds closer to rock music this time.
AH: You're not day-dreaming, but there's a lot of possible interpretations to this cover. I'll just add that the hand is a dead one, preserved by magnetism, and that Ajna, the sixth chakra, translates as "command" AND "perceive". There is also a little symbol tatooed in the center of the palm. As for the music, it comes from the same sessions as Descension, and even though it was mixed later, it has a similar vibe. We see it as a "white nightmare".
What lead to the collaboration with The Ajna Offensive? How is it to work with Tyler?
AH: We were in touch with Tyler since the begining of the band. We've always admired The Ajna Offensive. Working with Tyler is great, we're definetly on the same wavelength. For example, he immediately saw the Konx Om Pax reference in the Voix cover art. He is also very dedicated to Bobby Beausoleil, who is one of our favorite artists. The Ajna Offensive is the perfect home for Aluk Todolo.
“Occult Rock” was an octagonal prism whose vertexes were the eight composition, though they were crafted in a way that molt into each other. The alchemical transformation of the primal vibration into matter, meaning that a phenomenon happening “above” manifests sooner or later in the world below. Would you care to elaborate further details on the topic? How can a normal person see these phenomenons in everyday world?
AH: I have no idea of how a normal person can see this, but when related to art, or at least "mediumnic" art, it makes a lot of sense. As for Occult Rock, it deals with the four elements manifesting themselves in the specific order of Fire, Water, Air and Earth. Of course, from the alchemical point of view these elements are symbolic of different energies, which are portayed by the different tracks, each one beeing one aspect of one element : two aspects per side, two elements per disc, so four in total, or eight aspects, hence the octogon. On other levels, the music itself descends from above to the physical plane, just as incarnating spirit into matter is our mission as musicians.
In the Qabbalistic tradition it is believed that before the creation there was the light, Ain Sof, whence all creation came tobeing in a process of emanation and extension. I see a common ground between the idea portrayed in “Occult Rock” and Qabbalistic teachings. Also, pictures of rock are placed inside the lay out, which I believe represent the creation already manifested into being. Am I right? Into which systems of beliefs do you seek knowledge? I can see that your music is mainly influenced by Crowley's works.
AH: Crowley is important to us, but Occult Rock owes more to John Dee, and you can see his elemental tables printed in the artwork. There are obviously some correspondances between Kabbalistic teachings and Alchemy. I think you got a little confused with your Kabbalah, so to be more precise Ain is emptiness, Ain Sof is limitless and Ain Sof Aur is eternal light, which would be Fire in this case, as Fire is Light. All the systems are worth studying, but our music is our own.
Alchemical transformations follow a strict set of rules. Is this applied to the creation of the music? Do you have strict rules when it comes to compose, which in the case they were broken there would be a failure, or do you keep yourselves free?
AH: There are some rules, allowing us to work in an intuitive manner. There is no dogma, but a technique, employed precisely to keep us free. Emptying our mind to let the forces come in would be the first step. Then it is about reaching a certain level of vibration, and let the energies circulate. The self must not interferate, but the shape of the body matters. Composition becomes an act of revelation, as we are servants of the music, and do what the music requires.
Aluk Todolo's art is about creating or channelling? What places do words such as rationality and impulsiveness have inside your works of art?
AH: The way we envison music is definitely about channelling, as we believe that our music pre-exixts us. We use synchronicity as an instrument. Rationality and impulsiveness have probably an equal importance inside our works, but most of the time trying to put our creative process into words isn't very efficient, nor useful. "As often as I try to fit the reality with nearer words, I find myself in danger of losing the things themselves, and feel like one in process of awaking from a dream, with the thing that seemed familiar gradually yet swifly changing through a succession of forms until its very nature is no longer accessible."GMD
Norma Evangelium Diaboli is the core and pulsating heart of the true Black/Death Metal tradition. Amongst their ranks dwell only the ones worth enough to crush everything else, entities such as Funeral Mist, Deathspell Omega, Malign, Rebirth of Nefast, Antaeus, Teitanblood and many others. What does it feel like to have such a awe-inspiring brotherhood backing you up? Do you admire other glorious acts dwelling within the ranks? What lead to this pact?
AH: It's actually Tyler from Ajna who introduced us to Noevdia. I'm not familiar with any of these bands, but I know that Noevdia is a label with a strong, uncompromising vision. It is an honor and a pleasure to work with them.
What are, past and present, artists and bands you admire the most? What does inspire you in your daily lives?
AH: I am a obsessed with the band Magma. Chrisitian Vander is a master. On Kohntarhosz, his idea of inversing the rhythmic pulse is pure genius.This is how you fracture time! It truly is mind expanding as it opens a new world of music in suspension in which the ramifications and possibilities are infinite. I think that listening to Magma in a deep way is a true initiatory process. I can't recommand enough seeing them live, for me it was a life-changing experience.
“Voix” is the latest offering. A haunting recording through which one might actually hear voices, though no voice was recorded. After a year from its release, is there anything you would like to change?
AH: A recording belongs to time and space. I do not want to change anything to the album, but the music is alive and continues its way. We named this album Voix as we worked on the inner voices present in our music. So it is true to say that no human voice was recorded, but considering that these voices are created by three instruments playing together, or that they use this interraction as a gate to manifest themselves, it is logical that every time we perform Voix, in the practice space or on stage, something new is revealed. " Interpretation is the beginning of dissonance" C.V.
Although most of your recordings are composed of one song, they often get presented as separate tracks. Why is such a division needed?
AH: Its depends of what album we're talking about. On Voix the division in six parts doesn't mean that one is allowed to listen to it as different tracks in random order. This division isn't the most obvious one for who analyses the composition in a rational way, in the sense that some themes continue through different tracks, while some other stop in the middle. But it has a narrative purpose, as it is done from a wider point of view, to trace the ever changing map of the multidirectional labyrinth that is Voix.
What is the perfect format for Aluk Todolo's music? CD often gets ignored these days although it can make you listen tothe whole recording without the division of the vinyl format, though, given the instrument and the nature of the recordings, the analogic format seems to give a more “live” feeling to the music. When you compose, do you actually mind the division of the vinyl format?
AH: The perfect format for our music is definitely vinyl. To me the division in two sides actually forces the listener to be physically involved in his listening experience. In a way we have this division in mind when we compose, but not as a restriction, more because this is how the music permeates. We like to see a vinyl as an artefact, i.e a magical object.
Aluk Todolo is a trinity. Do all members have the same importance, even if I suspect yes? Do you all have a similar back ground? What lead you to work together, what made you feel like it was the right time and place with the right persons?
AH: It seems that the power trio formula is very efficient to let the energies circulate. All members have the same importance, in the sense we are all necessary, but each one has a specific role. I have no idea of what made us feel it was the right time and space, we just knew it in a way that didn't bring any interrogation.
In past interviews you declared that the entity's music was of positive nature. Can you elaborate further details? What should one feel while meditating upon your works? What are the perfect circumstances to listen to Aluk Todolo's music, for a regular listener?
AH: We propose a sensation, and leave to the listener the discretion to feel what he wants, or is able to. Of course one should listen to our albums in full, as disconecting one track from the whole opus makes it meaningless, but really there is as many possible mental landcapses as listenters and listening experiences. This is why we don't do any videoclips, as we do not want to freeze something that is always moving. Some people say our music is very dark, for some others it is full of light. Nothing is true and everything is possible, as Aluk Todolo works like a mirror in which one can see his own reflection.
What kind of relation do you have to the music you make? Do you listen to it often?
AH: Yes I do. Aluk Todolo is our own esoteric tool, that we craft for our personal use in the first place.
Your music was advertised as “religious-psychedelic-trance”. Care to elaborate more details? What meaning does the word religious bear in this description? Are you religious persons yourselves?
AH: This description comes from the old time of myspace when you had the choice between a selection of genres to decribe your music. There is not much to elaborate about this now that nobody uses myspace anymore.
If I am not wrong, Aluk Todolo means “the way of the ancestors”. What is the end of this path and how do you walk it daily in your lives? Is it a backwards path leading towards liberation from matter, walking back the road of creation?
AH: This question is a bit confusing, but yes, Aluk Todolo translates as the way of the Ancestors. There is no end to this path. In our daily lives we are musicians, even when we're not playing music. Matter is alienating only when disconected of spirit. I'd rather see the path as a process of reformation, to find back the original shape of man, the image of god. In our system, sensation and therfore synesthesia lead to entheogenicity, and the relation between the material and spiritual worlds is beyond any sort of dichotomia. They are entwined, and our access to reality are our five senses, which are part of the soul. If the universe is a vibration, music can be a high form of magic.
The seventeenth year saw the release of the “Archives Vol.1” LP. How did this came into being? The point of this release was just unleashing old material that felt worthy, or the way it is arranged creates another travel into Aluk Todolo's world?
AH: Archives vol 1 is a bit more than a compilation of left over material, the selection of tracks and the order in which they are compiled is made in a way that draws a sort of secret, inverted map of our discography, by focusing on some key-elements. If one listens carefully he can find some obsessional formulas permeating through all our other albums, be it in the form of a sound, a rhythm, a tune or a vibe.
What is the final goal of Aluk Todolo? Many artists say that theirs is just doing the work of their gods, but Aluk Todolonever mentioned such a thing. When will the entity have their goal completed? Will this moment see the end of the entity?
AH: I guess the goal will be completed when our music will become silence. I doubt it happen in this lifetime. But maybe Aluk Todolo can continue without us, when we will be the ancestors? Anyway, the path is the goal.
You give a lot of importance to live performances. So much importance that it seems as if the records were just a way of creating a monument that you ever existed, to give the material a proper home, while it rages outside in venues and so on. When do you feel satisfied with a live ritual? Do you care about the attendees reaction?
AH: Our music belongs to the stage. It is where and when it becomes alive. On stage things happen in the instant, and in the fraction of this instant, worlds within worlds become perceptible. Of course the attendees reaction matters, as playing live is sharing, and when a special connection happens with an audience, when a certain level of vibration occurs, there is no more listener and performer but only "listening". Of course it doesn't happen at every show, but can we blame the planets?
Was Lavoiseir wrong? Is there and end to creation, or is the end just another beginning, as in “Finsternis”?
AH: In Aluk Todolo, when phlogistic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead, a sphere can be a pyramid, the end the beginning, a cymbal can chant and above all vice versa.
I would like to thank you for participating to this interview, and to giving the possibility to all of us of staring deeper intoAluk Todolo's works. Last proclamations are yours.
Aum Tat Sat.
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